The Efficiency Trap - How Over-Optimization Takes Away The Pleasure Of Life

00:00:00: Hi, Max.

00:00:00: Hi, Manuel.

00:00:01: So this podcast is about efficiency.

00:00:05: So let's start with the obvious question.

00:00:07: What is efficiency?

00:00:09: Yeah, for me, efficiency basically means

00:00:11: that I have some goal, some outcome I

00:00:14: want to achieve.

00:00:15: Let's say in our work, I want to produce

00:00:18: an online course and I'm efficient if I

00:00:21: achieve this goal with the minimum

00:00:24: amount of resources invested or by

00:00:27: optimally investing my resources and

00:00:30: the resources would be time, money,

00:00:33: could maybe be some others like health.

00:00:35: But I would say time and money are the

00:00:37: main resources.

00:00:38: And yeah, I try to be efficient by using

00:00:41: these resources to achieve my goal

00:00:43: without wasting those resources.

00:00:46: Doesn't sound too bad, I would say.

00:00:47: So if you have resources and are careful

00:00:50: about how you use these, that's a good

00:00:52: thing.

00:00:52: But there is also a term existing or as we

00:00:55: called it in our previous discussion ahead

00:00:57: of this podcast, that's the efficiency trap.

00:01:00: So you want to elaborate a bit on this

00:01:03: problem because it is a problem.

00:01:05: Yeah.

00:01:05: I think it's not necessarily some official

00:01:09: thing, just something we came up with.

00:01:12: But I like to speak of the efficiency trap if

00:01:16: you're stuck in a mode, you could say,

00:01:21: where you have to optimize everything

00:01:23: and, for example, in work where you try

00:01:28: to do your work as efficiently as possible

00:01:30: to, for example, get work done faster or

00:01:33: whatever.

00:01:34: And then with any time you free up by

00:01:38: being efficient, you take on more work

00:01:41: that you want to do.

00:01:44: And that's something I definitely know

00:01:46: for myself in the past and still a bit today

00:01:49: where I have a hard time relaxing once

00:01:54: I'm done with the task I wanted to

00:01:56: achieve on a given day.

00:01:58: I have a hard time with that.

00:02:00: Instead, I really tend to finish a task and

00:02:03: then immediately start with the next

00:02:05: one and I try to be as efficient as

00:02:09: possible or I guess I tried to be as

00:02:11: efficient as possible on a workday.

00:02:14: And whilst this might sound good, this is

00:02:16: actually not necessarily a good route to

00:02:19: take, I would argue.

00:02:21: I would agree.

00:02:22: And if we compare both of us in this

00:02:25: scenario, then I would say that I don't

00:02:28: have this thing or I have it differently

00:02:31: maybe.

00:02:31: But what I can do, for example, is I can

00:02:34: take a day off on Tuesday, for example,

00:02:36: to go and buy some groceries because

00:02:38: for me it's an advantage to do this not

00:02:40: on a Saturday where everybody's there

00:02:42: and it's very crowded.

00:02:44: And I know that you typically wouldn't

00:02:46: do that because your commitment or

00:02:48: your resources during the weekdays are

00:02:52: allocated to your job, to your work.

00:02:54: So saying on a Tuesday, no, I'll do

00:02:57: something else is something you rarely

00:02:59: do.

00:03:00: Yeah, absolutely.

00:03:01: It's something I rarely do.

00:03:04: Something I've gotten better at because

00:03:07: the grocery thing is not too much of a

00:03:10: problem but in general, it's of course not

00:03:13: ideal if you are stuck in that mode, if you

00:03:17: can't take some time off or relax and so

00:03:20: on, we'll get back to that.

00:03:22: But yeah, that's something I try to get

00:03:24: better at because I think we can both

00:03:27: agree that efficiency is important and

00:03:29: we try to be efficient in our job and we

00:03:34: have our reasons for that.

00:03:36: But if it gets like something you have to

00:03:39: do in all aspects of your life, if it really

00:03:42: dictates how you spend your day, then it

00:03:46: can be a problem.

00:03:47: And totally agree.

00:03:48: But as you said, we'll come back to this

00:03:50: thing in a bit more detail in a few

00:03:51: minutes because there are multiple

00:03:53: aspects of efficiency in life.

00:03:56: So this is life in general, but there the

00:03:58: private life or the working life, the job,

00:04:01: whatever you want to call it.

00:04:03: So if you first think about the working

00:04:04: part of efficiency, then as you said,

00:04:07: efficiency definitely is important and

00:04:09: required.

00:04:10: Because in your job, no matter what you

00:04:13: do, resources are limited.

00:04:16: So you have time or money, for example,

00:04:18: as you mentioned.

00:04:19: So if you want to complete a project, you

00:04:21: have to be careful about how you use

00:04:23: these resources.

00:04:25: So working efficiently in your job is

00:04:28: definitely nothing bad.

00:04:29: It is required to finish your projects, to

00:04:31: achieve your goals.

00:04:33: And in the working environment, you

00:04:36: also have competition from other

00:04:38: companies, for example.

00:04:39: If you are not producing a very unique

00:04:41: product, then if you don't use your

00:04:42: resources efficiently, it will take you too

00:04:45: long to finish the product or it will be too

00:04:47: expensive.

00:04:48: So nobody buys it and so on.

00:04:50: So you have to be efficient at your job, in

00:04:52: your work, to be competitive and to do a

00:04:55: good job.

00:04:56: So that's where efficiency is required and

00:04:59: a good thing.

00:05:00: Yeah, right.

00:05:00: Totally agree.

00:05:01: Definitely.

00:05:02: And as I said, of course, we also do our

00:05:06: best to be efficient in many parts, many

00:05:09: aspects of our job.

00:05:10: Not all of them.

00:05:11: We'll get back to that.

00:05:12: But we try to do things efficiently.

00:05:15: We produce courses and we, of course,

00:05:18: thought and continuously think about

00:05:20: all the parts that make up this course

00:05:22: production process.

00:05:23: And we, of course, try to look for areas

00:05:28: where we can improve our efficiency.

00:05:31: For example, we have captions for our

00:05:36: courses.

00:05:37: We don't write them ourselves.

00:05:39: We could do that, but it would be a lot of

00:05:42: work that's not really fun, that doesn't

00:05:43: add… It adds a lot of quality, I guess, but

00:05:47: it's not something we have to do.

00:05:49: Instead, this is something we can

00:05:50: outsource with ease and we can be

00:05:52: more efficient because the time we free

00:05:54: up by not doing that ourselves can be

00:05:56: spent either on other projects or coming

00:05:59: back to that efficiency trap also by

00:06:02: calling it a day if you're done with what

00:06:04: you wanted to do on a given day.

00:06:06: Because captions are a special part of

00:06:09: our work, because this is something we

00:06:10: can outsource and that we don't have to

00:06:13: review.

00:06:13: So we can take it as given.

00:06:16: These are done.

00:06:17: These are fine.

00:06:18: Because if you outsource other things,

00:06:20: for example, if you would outsource

00:06:21: preparing projects for courses, then you

00:06:24: would have to prepare the actual project

00:06:26: in a way that you describe what should

00:06:28: be created, what the project should look

00:06:30: like.

00:06:31: And once you get it back, you have to

00:06:32: review it again or check it again.

00:06:34: So this wouldn't save us as much time

00:06:37: and therefore efficiency would be

00:06:39: questionable.

00:06:40: But up to this point, we only talk about

00:06:42: efficiency from a pure money, time and

00:06:47: finishing projects thing.

00:06:49: But I guess that efficiency also is an

00:06:52: aspect that is important in work when it

00:06:55: comes to do I enjoy parts of my work or

00:06:58: do I enjoy my work in general?

00:06:59: Because the more you only think in

00:07:01: these efficiency terms, chances are

00:07:05: higher that the enjoy part gets a bit less.

00:07:09: Let's call it like that.

00:07:10: Yeah.

00:07:10: Definitely.

00:07:11: You mentioned the course projects

00:07:13: which we create and that's a very good

00:07:16: example because there are actually

00:07:18: multiple related aspects, you could say.

00:07:21: So for one, as you said, of course, we

00:07:25: could try to outsource the course project

00:07:28: preparation part so that we have

00:07:30: freelancers preparing course projects for

00:07:32: us and then we just record the videos

00:07:35: based on those projects.

00:07:36: However, for one, that is not necessarily

00:07:40: more efficient because as you said, we

00:07:41: have to review the work we get back.

00:07:44: We might have to fine tune it.

00:07:46: We might see that whilst we're

00:07:48: recording the course that the project

00:07:50: was not ideal because we overlooked

00:07:53: something when preparing the

00:07:55: description for the freelancer.

00:07:56: So we might lose time there and we

00:07:58: might not gain too much actually.

00:08:01: But even if that would not be the case,

00:08:03: then the fun factor is also important

00:08:06: because if you try to optimize everything

00:08:10: in work, if you try to outsource

00:08:12: everything or as much as possible, then

00:08:15: of course there's little left for you and the

00:08:17: danger is that you become that super

00:08:19: efficient optimization machine who

00:08:22: doesn't actually do anymore what we

00:08:25: previously enjoyed doing.

00:08:26: I mean, we did start creating courses

00:08:28: because we enjoy doing that.

00:08:30: We still do and if we outsource

00:08:32: everything, if we try to become

00:08:34: efficiency monsters there, we would lose

00:08:37: the part that we honestly like.

00:08:40: And we would agree and we would lose

00:08:42: it to do something else that we actually

00:08:44: don't want to do.

00:08:45: So what's the whole point behind that?

00:08:47: Now we are aware that this totally

00:08:50: depends on your job, on your life

00:08:53: circumstances.

00:08:53: So we talk about our current situation,

00:08:56: obviously.

00:08:57: But I guess the core idea is something

00:08:58: you can relate to, I guess, because it's

00:09:00: always that thing about I kind of enjoy

00:09:02: my job, I want to do it more efficiently,

00:09:04: but there are limitations that I have to

00:09:06: set.

00:09:07: If those are external limitations or things

00:09:10: I have to do, then I can't do that.

00:09:12: But if I have the power to decide how I

00:09:14: allocate my resources, then the level of

00:09:17: efficiency should be up to ourselves.

00:09:20: Yeah, exactly.

00:09:21: You just mentioned that of course there

00:09:24: may be external factors that kind of limit

00:09:27: your freedom regarding how you can set

00:09:31: your own goals or which resources you

00:09:33: have.

00:09:34: Of course, there are different

00:09:35: circumstances.

00:09:36: So that is outside of your control to some

00:09:39: extent.

00:09:39: And as you said, we're talking about our

00:09:42: perspective, our job.

00:09:43: But if we take a look at the private life,

00:09:47: then of course we live in a world where

00:09:50: there are a lot of influences and

00:09:53: influencers, I guess, and expectations

00:09:56: that can also kind of dictate how we live

00:10:01: our lives or how we feel we should be

00:10:03: living them.

00:10:03: So we might not actually be restricted.

00:10:06: We might not actually have to do

00:10:08: something, but we might feel like we

00:10:10: have to be super efficient.

00:10:12: We might feel like it's not okay to spend

00:10:15: an hour on the couch watching a series

00:10:17: on Netflix.

00:10:18: We might feel like we have to do some

00:10:21: side projects in the evening or learn a

00:10:23: new language, not a programming

00:10:25: language, any language.

00:10:27: So and that of course can make sense.

00:10:29: Absolutely fine to do that, but it can also

00:10:32: be dangerous if you feel like you have to

00:10:33: do that.

00:10:34: Totally.

00:10:34: And I think the idea of getting

00:10:36: influenced or inspired by other people is

00:10:38: nothing bad at all.

00:10:39: No.

00:10:39: It can change some habits that are not

00:10:42: the best.

00:10:42: So if you decide to work out every

00:10:44: evening, for example, instead of sitting

00:10:46: on the couch for three hours, I think

00:10:48: that's something good.

00:10:49: But still, you always have to keep in

00:10:50: mind that these are foreign people,

00:10:53: people you don't know, that tell you how

00:10:56: you have to live your life.

00:10:57: And this is where it gets dangerous, in

00:10:58: my opinion, because you always have to

00:11:00: think about your own personal life, your

00:11:02: own personal wishes and the lives that

00:11:05: you want to live.

00:11:06: So getting inspired, in my opinion, is

00:11:08: good, but getting a bad feeling about

00:11:11: not doing what you're told to do,

00:11:13: especially in the private life, I don't think

00:11:16: this leads to a happy and satisfied life,

00:11:19: because I wouldn't feel good with that

00:11:21: approach, to be honest.

00:11:22: Yeah.

00:11:22: So that's where this whole efficiency

00:11:25: thing swaps over to the private life,

00:11:28: because as you said, it always depends

00:11:30: on your life.

00:11:31: Not everybody has the freedom to

00:11:33: decide how to allocate the resources at

00:11:36: work, but maybe some also don't have

00:11:39: that in the private life because they have

00:11:41: many, many duties and obligations.

00:11:42: But as mentioned, these are our

00:11:44: perspectives.

00:11:45: So I think, especially for the private life,

00:11:47: you have to make sure that you don't

00:11:50: put efficiency as your number one goal,

00:11:52: except you want to live that life.

00:11:55: So if efficiency is all about your main

00:11:58: thing that you want to have day by day,

00:12:00: so you want to be organized from early

00:12:02: morning until late at night, late in the

00:12:04: evening, then this is okay.

00:12:05: But only because other people do that,

00:12:08: you shouldn't do that if you don't want

00:12:09: to.

00:12:10: Especially since you only see like the

00:12:13: picture other people want you to see.

00:12:16: And I guess that's something we could

00:12:17: discuss in a separate podcast episode,

00:12:19: but you don't see how their real life looks

00:12:24: like.

00:12:24: You only see what they want you to see.

00:12:26: And therefore, as you said, efficiency

00:12:28: itself probably shouldn't be the number

00:12:31: one goal.

00:12:32: It can make a lot of sense to try to be

00:12:35: efficient when it comes to achieving

00:12:38: your actual goal, and that can also be a

00:12:40: non-work goal, that can be like a goal

00:12:43: like learning a new language, but that

00:12:45: can also be the goal of relaxing,

00:12:48: recharging, playing a video game.

00:12:50: That can be a goal.

00:12:51: And you can, of course, try to be efficient

00:12:54: there.

00:12:55: For example, doing the dishes quickly so

00:12:57: that you can start playing quicker.

00:12:59: That can make sense.

00:13:00: But efficiency and optimizing everything

00:13:04: probably shouldn't be your number one

00:13:08: goal itself.

00:13:09: It should just be something which helps

00:13:11: you achieve your goals.

00:13:13: And there is also one pretty common

00:13:14: example that demonstrates that

00:13:16: over-efficiency thing in private life.

00:13:18: It's the alternative to ordinary food

00:13:21: where you just drink something.

00:13:24: I don't even know what that is.

00:13:25: Some pre-processed stuff with lots of

00:13:27: liquid nutrition, whatever, that you drink

00:13:31: in ten seconds instead of having an

00:13:32: actual dinner, for example.

00:13:34: Once again, if you want that, it's fine.

00:13:36: But for me personally, that's not the way

00:13:38: I want to go because I think eating is not

00:13:40: something that I have to optimize

00:13:42: completely.

00:13:43: I'm not a big fan of cooking, to be

00:13:45: honest, so I cook quite fast if I cook.

00:13:47: But it's not that this is just a point on my

00:13:51: list, okay, I have to cook, then I have to

00:13:52: eat.

00:13:52: I enjoy eating and I enjoy these normal

00:13:55: things humans do.

00:13:56: Yeah, absolutely.

00:13:57: Because that's then again that efficiency

00:14:00: trap we mentioned at the beginning.

00:14:02: We started with the efficiency trap

00:14:04: related to work and not being able to

00:14:07: switch off, so to say.

00:14:09: But of course you can also get into that

00:14:12: efficiency trap in your non-work life, for

00:14:15: example, by optimizing how you eat and

00:14:18: what you eat, how you work out, how

00:14:20: often you work out, which people you

00:14:22: meet, that you only meet people that

00:14:25: are helpful to you or give you some

00:14:27: benefit instead of just hanging out with

00:14:29: a good friend.

00:14:30: And yeah, that's again this efficiency

00:14:33: trap, I'd say.

00:14:34: And I think and I guess we think it's

00:14:38: really important to be aware of the trap

00:14:41: and not over optimize things.

00:14:44: And that's hard because of course we

00:14:46: live in a society and in a world where it's

00:14:49: pretty popular to optimize things and

00:14:52: where you can get a feeling that

00:14:54: everything should be as efficient as

00:14:56: possible.

00:14:57: And I guess we think and we hopefully

00:14:59: also explain to some extent why that's

00:15:01: not necessarily the case in our opinion.

00:15:03: At least not 100%.

00:15:06: It depends on specific situations, specific

00:15:09: areas.

00:15:11: But efficiency above everything is not

00:15:14: something that we follow, I guess.

00:15:16: We don't do that.

00:15:16: Or at least I try to get out of that

00:15:18: efficiency trap.

00:15:19: Yes, yes.

00:15:20: Yeah, and I think that's our take on

00:15:22: efficiency.

00:15:23: As always, we are looking forward to

00:15:25: your opinions on that topic because as

00:15:28: mentioned, these are our thoughts but

00:15:30: we're interested into your thoughts too.

00:15:32: So I guess thanks for hearing us.

00:15:35: Thanks for hearing us and hopefully we

00:15:38: hear you or you hear us in the next

00:15:40: episode.